Madonna is featured on
the cover of Cosmopolitan’s May 2015 issue. The 14-page spread contains
incredible pictures shot by Ellen von Unwerth and also an interview.
Cosmpolitan: Let’s talk about the album title,
Rebel Heart. After 30 years, what are you still rebelling against?
Madonna: Don’t be fooled, not much has
changed – certainly not for women. We still live in a very sexist society that
wants to limit people. Since I started, I’ve had people giving me a hard time
because they didn’t think you could be sexual or have sexuality or sensuality
in your work and be intelligent at the same time. People still like to put
women in categories – good girl, bad girl, virgin, whore. When I was starting
my career, people tried to put me in a category and diminish me. Now I’m being
discriminated against because I’m 56 years old, and people don’t think I have
the right to continue to be successful, to be sexual, to have fun. That is a
kind of sexism and discrimination. No man ever gets criticized for his
behaviour because of his age. It’s only women. So for me, the fight has never
ended.
Cosmpolitan: Why do you think people get so
worked up about the sexuality of older women?
Madonna: You can have a successful career,
but eventually, it’s “We want you to get married, have children, and go away.”
Or “We’re comfortable with you if you desexualize yourself in some way, shape,
or form. If you can neuter yourself or become man-like, then we can accept
you.” The reason I look up to women like Frida Kahlo, Lee Miller, and Martha
Graham is that they did not fit into the conventional role of how a female
should act. They didn’t fit into what society expects a woman to do.
Cosmpolitan: It’s been 50 years since Helen Gurly
Brown brought a new sexually liberated message to Cosmopolitan. Did you think a
lot about feminism when you were starting out?
Madonna: I didn’t think about the word
feminism as much as I thought about women who were feminists. I was influenced
by writers like Anne Sexton, Sylvia Plath, Carson McCullers – women who didn’t
take the path most traveled. I wasn’t thinking “Oh they’re feminists and I want
to be a feminist.” I was just thinking “They’re strong women and I want to be
like them.” I wasn’t categorizing or labeling, but I was certainly grateful
that they existed as role models.
Cosmpolitan: And now? How do you feel about
calling yourself a feminist?
Madonna: I think humanist is a better idea. I
don’t like the idea of segregating. Human beings all need to be treated with
dignity and honor and respect – gay, straight, bi, black, white, male, female,
Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, whatever. The revolution of love is not about just
pushing the rights of women, it’s pushing the rights of every living creature
on this planet.
Cosmpolitan: Do you date or is that just
impossible given that you’re, you know, Madonna?
Madonna: It’s a challenge. I generally meet
people through work. Musicians, writers, producers, dancers. I’m attracted to
people who are creative, but I don’t have a dating manifesto.
Cosmpolitan: It seems like nothing can break your
spirit. Would you say that’s true?
Madonna: That’s absurd. Even strong women
have moments of weakness and vulnerability. I have my nervous breakdowns; I
just do them privately.
Cosmpolitan: This album reads like a who’s who of
the music industry – Kanye, Diplo, Nicki Minaj. How do you go about choosing
who you work with?
Madonna: We pick one another. It was my
manager’s idea to work with Avicii’s team. I didn’t know that Tim [Bergling]
was a songwriter. I thought of him as a DJ/producer, but he had two teams of
writers. I would go from room to room, sitting and writing with them. I called
them my Viking Harem. I don’t remember how Diplo came along, but he was
somebody whose music I liked a lot. He brought a whole army of people with him.
I think he thought I was going to be quite difficult. He was nervous, but then
little by little, all the people started getting pushed away. [Writing] is a
trust game, some people you immediately have a connection with and they get
your sense of humor. You click into their frequency. Other people are strangely
uptight and you’re thinking, “Okay I can’t wait until this is over.” Natalia
[Kills], I loved her from the minute she walked in the room. And MoZella, she’s
a Michigan girl. I clicked with her immediately.
Cosmpolitan: How hard was it to have so many
people involved?
Madonna: The whole writing process was like a
train that kept running. I kept picking people up. Some people stayed on the
train longer than others. They would get off at stations, and they would get on
at other stations. Diplo kept coming and going. Kanye would come and go. We’re
living in an age when these DJ/producers are working with lots of artists.
Nobody’s doing entire records with anybody. So I was going crazy thinking.
“Can’t I just have you for a whole week? Why do I just get you for two days?”
There was a constant battle for people who were very busy traveling. That drove
me bonkers. But that’s how everybody ended up getting into the mix.
Cosmpolitan: You and Kanye in one room must be
pretty intense. What was it like working together.
Madonna: It’s a little bit of a bullfight,
but we take turns. He knows that he’s walking into a room with a person with a
strong point of view, and I do too. I listen to what he has to say, take it in,
and he listens to what I say and takes it in. He knows that I have the final
say on my songs at the end of the day, but I respect his opinion. We didn’t
agree on everything, but he has good ideas. There was no screaming match ever
on this record. Actually, I may have screamed at Diplo once. But that’s only
because he ran out to do a photo shoot in the middle of a session without
warning me [laughs].
Cosmpolitan: Tell me about the song “Unapologetic
Bitch.” What was the inspiration?
Madonna: It’s about a guy who fucked me over.
It’s got nothing to do with society.
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